Kou Moua

Typical morning for Kou Moua.

Stepping in: When I first met Kou Moua, his face looked familiar. The more I thought about it, his name also sounded familiar. If you’ve ever spent time in the Montana Fly Fishing Facebook group, you’ll know why. Kou Moua is one of the top contributors, constantly posting massive trout, perfectly nestled in the corner of his net. Kou is a fishing legend, and he somehow stumbled into my professional career as our new designer in town.

After discovering that Kou was our new hire, I tried to keep cool and keep my questions to a minimum. But that didn’t last long. Within weeks, we were on the river fishing his favorite holes.

Kou stalks big rainbows in spring-fed sloughs, casts a streamer better than anyone I’ve ever met and meticulously covers water. He’s patient, quiet and loves a good brown trout. In this interview, Kou left me dreaming of catching a once-in-a-lifetime fish and reminded me about slowing down.  

Where did you grow up?

I was born and raised in Missoula, Montana.

Do you have a go to local fly shop or outfitter that you frequent?

I spread my love everywhere, from sporting goods stores to the local fly shops. I'll shop anywhere.

What is your go-to fly rod?

My go-to fly rod is my eight foot, four-weight ARL Winston.

What's your favorite fly?

Size eight, olive sculpzilla.

How'd you get into fly fishing? Let's go back to your roots here. How did it all begin?

I started fly fishing in like the mid 90s. Yeah, before Instagram. My dad was a land surveyor. He worked as a civil engineer for one of the companies in town. He's retired now, but back in the day, he was always outdoors. He and his colleagues were always up in the woods, and they would find themselves in these really beautiful lakes and streams. Come sundown, all these fish would start rising.

My dad was like, “Hey, can anyone catch these fish that are rising?” All we ever knew were worms, sinkers and bobbers. But all these fish were eating up top. My dad's colleague said you had to fly fish for these. He was interested, kind of curious and went out to the sporting goods store, picked up a cheap fly rod and reel combo. But he couldn't pick up the science behind casting a fly rod, so he put it away in the garage.

Then a couple years later, I came across the fly rod, and I picked it up. I wiggled it and I took it out in the backyard, and I cast it a couple times, and I sucked at it. I was like, whatever, and I put it back.

Then, it was the mid 90s and a River Runs Through It came out. I hadn't seen it yet, but then I watched that movie and was like, “let's try this again.” I went back to the fly rod, picked it up, practiced and practiced and practiced. I couldn't get it, so I put it back down again, and went back to my spinning gear. Then it was back and forth for a year or two, and then I went off to graphic design school for a year and a half, almost two years, came back, and then I really got into it. I picked up my first real fly rod from one of the sporting goods store in town, and the rest was history.

How old were you then?

I was 20. I remember my first fly rod I ever picked up was $200, which to me was really expensive at the time, and it was an eight foot, four weight, diamond back VSR. I don't even know if they're in business anymore. I fished that for a couple years.

What keeps you coming back to the water time and time again?

Being out there, just catching fish. Back then it was all about catching fish. Once I picked up the fly rod and my brothers saw that I was catching fish, they each got their own, and then all my cousins started following us. Pretty soon, we were all fly fishing. I've always been kind of outdoorsy. I hunted a lot with my dad when I was younger.

You’ve fished for a long time, why are you still doing it?

Because I love it. I'm obsessed with it.

What about the sport are you obsessed with?

When I first started, it was catching as many fish as possible, like I said, trying to out fish my brothers, because we would all go out there and fish together. I kind of figured out what nymphing was.

Back then, I didn't know anything about nymphing. In fact, I fly fished for the longest time without any backing on my reel. I didn't know that I had to have backing on my reel, so it was just one reel and fly line until one year I went to a fly shop, and the guy's like, “You need backing.” Luckily, we never caught anything huge or I would have been in trouble.

No pike back then, no pike yet. Back then, they were around. But I didn't know anything about them. I didn’t know anything about streamers. We would throw dry flies year-round. In the middle of winter, we'd be out there throwing dries.

It was terrible, terrible fishing, obviously. Winter, spring, summer, fall, it was all dries. I had no idea nymphs existed. No idea streamers existed. We were just out there, just throwing dries all the time.

When did you start nymphing?

I started nymphing a couple years in. Once we figured it out, we were catching a lot more fish. Then it wasn't about catching as many fish as I we could. It was just exploring waters and trying to find all these different places, like all these side channels and crossing as many side channels as we could, trying to find new places and explore.  

We did that a lot, all these side channels on the Clark Fork and the Bitterroot. We fished like crazy. We made note of the good holes, and some of these holes we still go back to because they produce really, really good fish.

What's your favorite type of water to fish?

My favorite type of water to fish are side channels and slow muck-bottom sloughs. A lot of the time, I can sight fish. I can see them in there. If they're actively feeding and moving around, I know I could probably catch one. If it's cold and they’re lethargic and sitting still, then it's pretty much game over. Because whatever I do, it’s going to spook that fish. But I love fishing side channels with dries and streamers. Indicator fishing with really tiny zebra midges is always productive.

How often do you go fishing?

As much as I can, not as often as I would like. Wwice a month. Three times a month. It used to be all the time, three days at least.  

I've got a pretty busy schedule, with all these outings they’re usually three hours long. It’s rarely ever a full day, unfortunately. Luckily, I can drive 5 minutes and get to a good fishing spot. I’m pretty blessed.

Is it more about the fly you have tied on or the presentation?

The fly. But I streamer fish a lot, and streamers are a different game.

But if it comes to dries and nymphs, they might say the fly. You gotta match the hatch. With a streamer, you're not matching the hatch, but you're matching what they're eating subsurface, like leaches and baitfish.

Do you think people should focus on it? For example, say they're fishing a run that they know holds fish, and they're not getting any action. Should they think about the depth and how they’re presenting the fly or focus on changing out that fly to find what they're eating?

The first thing you do is look at the water. Observe it, wait, watch and see if anything's coming up. That's what I do. And I don't know why I do that because I'm usually throwing streamers. I don't even know why I stop to look at water and watch for rising fish when I know I'm going to throw a streamer. But it's cool to watch and see.

How much does the fly matter?

For dries, I think it's more of a match to hatch thing. I'm not gonna throw a grasshopper when there's a bunch of blue wing olives. I'm not gonna throw a bunch of little olives when hoppers are on the water. As for nymphing, there are so many types of bugs living subsurface. I don't know if you've ever lifted rocks, but they've got tons of stuff that could be any kind of nymph you have in your fly box.

I've caught fish on sloppy dry fly cast. If they're hungry and they're looking up and they're actively feeding, sometimes they'll just come up and eat it, even if it's a bad cast, even if it's got some drag in it.  That’s kind of like swinging a wet fly. I don't know if you ever swing soft tackle, but I know it's effective and it’s pretty sloppy.

How do you approach water you’ve never fished before?

Streamers. Wooly buggers, sculpzillas. I don't throw big streamers because with a small streamer, I can catch a small fish or a big fish.

My theory is for big fish, if a 24-inch brown just ate a 12-inch pike minnow, or a white fish, or a trout, or whatever, it's not goin to move. It's just going to sit and hang out.

I like to tell people I’ve just had a double bacon cheeseburger with fries, and chase that down with a large coke. I’m not going to have another double bacon cheeseburger, but I'll eat that little french fry in the bottom of bag if I see it.

That’s why I throw tiny stuff, smaller streamers because you know that big brown or rainbow whatever, probably won't move for like a 16 streamer, but it might nibble a size eight sculpzilla or a tiny booger.

How do you take your gear to the water?

I have a double rod case with my streamer rod and my dry fly rod. I usually get dressed up in my waders at home before I get in the car to drive.

I don't care much for getting in my waders while I'm at the river because I’m too excited. I bring my two rod case that I carry with me and a little sling pack that I've had for a couple years.

What's a good day of fishing for you?

A good day of fishing at a really tough spot is maybe one nice fish. That's a good day for me. I can spend three-four hours just stalking one big fish. If it's a spot where there are a ton of fish rising like crazy or a bunch of whitefish, they always seem to save the day and maybe I land a few dozen fish, so that's a good day.

Some skunk days are pretty good because me and my brothers have spent so many years exploring waters that we know have huge browns that come in to stage and spawn. You can see they’re hanging out and chasing each other around, all sexually frustrated and just waiting to move upstream. We might not catch anything, but we've seen like a dozen or so huge browns in there.

The same goes for rainbows. We know all these places where the rainbows come in to spawn, hang out and chase each other. We’ll be throwing pike flies and stuff for pike, and we will go check out these rainbows and go watch them for a little bit. You know, it's a skunk day. We're not gonna catch them, but it's pretty cool to see.

Do you prefer fishing solo or with others?

I prefer fishing with others, but with my schedule, I'm usually solo, but I like to fish with my brother. I have three brothers.

Do you prefer wade fishing or from a boat?

I never fish from a boat. Never, never! Funny thing is, my brother owns a drift boat, and he's on it all the time, just like I said, different schedules.

What do you like about wade fishing?

I can take my time, watch study, hang out, and I’m not constantly looking for fish or leaving leaving fish to find fish. I think that happens a lot with folks that are on boats and rafts.

What's the speed of your fishing? Do you cover a lot of water, or do you focus on major runs in specific areas?

I have a lot of places where I know there are fish, and I go straight there and I try to catch them.  Sometimes I do explore rarely, though. Mostly because I'm always on a time limit. But I do enjoy exploring. I really do.

What aspect of fly fishing is frustrating, challenging or even maybe painful for you?

I’ve fly fished for a long time, but I've never picked up a two hander. I don't own a nymphing rod, one of those, 11-foot, two weight, three weight rods. I don't own one. When I do nymph, it's with an indicator.

There's a lot that I don't know about fly fishing. I've just been fishing the way I've been fishing since I was a teenager.

Sometimes it's a little frustrating because if I had a nymphing rod, I probably would have killed it today.

What's a good fish in your opinion?

A big fish is anything over 22 inches. A good fish is probably 18, 19, 20 inches.

Do you have a best fish?

My best fish is a 30-inch brown that I caught on the Missouri River on an October night. It was super, super cold. We met up with one of my friends who lives in Helena, and we got to the river after dark. The plan was to gather around the campfire, drink some beers, hang out and eat dinner. Everyone wanted to go fishing, and I was like, “I'm not gonna go fishing.” I have my flip flops on, I have my shorts on, and I have my PBR and I was like, Well, you guys go and I’ll just hang out.

So everyone's fishing, and I'm just drinking beer and talking. Then one of my friend who lives in Helena, lands a walleye in the dark, and I was like, “I've never caught a walleye on a fly rod, so I'm gonna try.”

I didn't get into my waders, and I just rigged up my fly rod real quick and tied on a six-inch articulated streamer called the “dream catcher.” I remember that. I had forgotten the name of that streamer until I caught that big, big brown on it.

I went back to the fly shop and asked what the fly was called. The name is now etched into my memory because I had to find out what it was called.

So going back to the story, I waded into the cold water with my flip flops and my shorts, and I started casting. I had no idea how far I was casting. It was pretty weedy because it was a warm summer, so there was a lot of weeds, but suddenly there was a tug downstream.

I lifted my rod, and it was super, super heavy. My brother was standing about 30 yards downstream from me, and he's like, “I can hear it rolling. It sounds huge. I can hear it.”

It was pretty much dead weight. It was really, really heavy, and I reel it in and back it up to the shore. We all turned on our head lamps, and we looked down, and it was this huge, 30-inch brown that was a hen. None of our nets were big enough. I unhooked it, and I held it in the water, and my brother said you should probably take out the tape measure and see how long that fish is. You can't go around town telling people you caught  like a 30 inch or 32 inch or 28 inches. You need to know exactly how big this fish is. So he brought the tape measure out, and we measured it at 30 inches, and then released it.

We were yelling and hooting and hollering. It was crazy, and our yells and our screens and our laughter just kind of echoed through that little valley.

After that, we tried for a little bit longer, but that was it. The dream catcher.

That's my PB, and I don't think I'll ever break it. I don't think I'll ever out do that.

What's your favorite time of the year to fish?

Mid-September to probably end of November because I can throw a bunch of stuff and fish seem to be more active. Water is cooling down and fish are hungrier. They know the cold weather is coming. They gotta eat.

What's the best piece of advice for new anglers getting into the sport?

Explore, explore, explore, explore, go to your fly shops, ask questions. I never did that when I was growing up and it was tough. We didn’t have the internet back then. We had plenty of books, but I wasn't gonna sit down and read a book. I just wanted to fish. I also never had the courage to walk into a fly shop. It was really intimidating.

So, get out there and explore.

How do you fight a fish?

I throw streamers a lot, so it's usually 10-pound test or more. It's a lot of just muscling it in. I'm not very concerned about my line breaking. If something's going to go, it's probably going to be my rod. Keep the rod low and just back up. You can land a fish with heavier line.

Do you buy the belief that stringer fishing is the best for big fish? Yeah, definitely. 100% if you want to go catch big fish, throw streamers. Back to the hamburger thing.

Have you ever caught a really good fish on something other than a streamer?

Yeah, I know some places where 20-24 inch rainbows refuse streamers all day long, but they'll eat a size 20 zebra midge.

What can anglers do to help with conservation efforts take care of the river?

Don’t step on reds, as these fish are spawning. Don't try to catch fish on them, and don't step in the water. I know felt-souled boots can transport all sorts of aquatic invasives. Be mindful.

Where do you get inspiration for fishing?

I'm self-motivated. I'm not too envious when it comes to fishing other places. Living here in Missoula, I'm happy with that. I don't watch fly fishing videos of New Zealand with folks catching huge browns and being like “Oh, I want to do that,” because I can probably do it here. It's a little harder. It’s a little tougher. There’s a lot more fishing pressure, but I can do it here.

Aside from trout, are there other species of fish you find particularly fun to target?

Here we have trout and northern pike withing a 10-15 minute drive. We’ve got smallies. I enjoy pike. I used to target them specifically, just because that was one of the stages I was going through. I was trying to catch big pike. Now, if I happen to be fishing pikey waters, I'll try for pike. But mostly it's just trout.

What’s your best advice for pike fishing?

My best advice for pike fishing is use something that will not break, leader-wise. I used to do steel wire, and it works. But if the pike are pressured, then they tend to ignore it. I’ve since switched to 40-pound test. I do about 18-24 inches of 40 pound connected to eight feet of 25-pound. I haven't broken off a single, and I've caught some pretty big pipe too. It works for me.

What are you looking forward to in your future with fly fishing?

One day I want to start tying. Coming from an artistic background, I think I would really excel at that.

But right now, I just want to fish.